3. On the lion size:
This part is even more disturbing. Roman quotes
a maximum total length of 360 cm for the lion!!! This size is IMPOSSIBLE for a
modern lion. There is NOT A SINGLE RELIABLE RECORD of a lion of this length.
The longest lion recorded in Guinness was of about 340 cm and it was NOT
measured between pegs (it just says “accurately measured, it doesn’t state the
method, and is 100% certain that it was measured over the curve).
The longest lion measured between pegs is a big
male of 310 cm in Northern Rhodesia, check the image:
From about 150 specimens (50 large males) recorded
by Stevenson Hamilton, from South Africa, the longest male measured almost 300
cm in total length, here is the image:
Finally, this table made by me, shows all the
available records of male lions from East Africa, and the longest one was of
I ask again, were he got the figure of 360
cm??? Besides, it is clear that the shoulder height of 123 cm is NOT a standing
height. The first figure of c.120 cm came from Smuts et al. (1980), however this is not a standing height but from the
shoulder to the tip of the paw, check the image:
The tallest lion actually measured between pegs
and from the shoulder to the wrist (which is about the same than the standing
height) was of 114 cm (3 ft 9 in) and was reported by Pitman, here is the
Check that the lion of 4 ft 3 in is UNRELIABLE
according with the document.
Besides, the lion of “over 750 lb” is also unreliable
and probably just a huge exaggeration:
As we can see, the longest lion (310 cm) and
the tallest specimen (114 cm) are completely different than the exaggerated
figures in Uchytel’s image.
Finally, in the body mass department, he quotes
the maximum figure of 313 kg, which came from Guinness, however why he don’t
put the scientific record, 260 kg from Etosha - 240 kg empty belly according
with Dr Hu Berry (who capture the specimen) also in his image? Again, inaccuracy
is part of the problem.
Finally, the average of 181 kg is exaggerated,
as it represents only the population of Southern Africa; East African lions
weigh less than 175 kg on average (check my previous image on those specimens).
Kitchener & Yamaguchi (2010) stated an average of 170 kg for the entire
species, a figure corroborated by peter and me. However, it is doubtful if they
included the lions from India and those from West Africa, which reduce the
average figure significantly.
Here is the REAL heaviest lion on record,
verified by scientists in the field:
A direct confirmation, better……impossible.
4. On the tiger size:
He quotes the maximum total length of the tiger
at 330 cm, which obviously came from Mazák (1981) and put more weight to my
assumption than he (Roman) directly ignored the record skull of 383 mm, as both
data are in the same document.
Latter, he quotes a maximum shoulder height of
115 cm, which is correct; the tallest tiger measured between pegs by Brander
was of 112 cm (44 in), check the image:
Cooch Behar and Mr Shillingford also reported
tigers of up to 114 cm measured between pegs. So, the figure of 115 cm seems
It seems that the length and weight of the
tiger is correct here, but not its weight. He randomly quotes a maximum of 365
kg, which is a weight that doesn’t figure in any document.
The maximum weight recorded and verified in
Nepal was of 320 kg, it was vouched by Smythies and corroborated by Dr Charles
McDougal, here are several images of it:
However, if we follow the same way than Roman,
we must include the tiger record of Guinness, and in this case, the maximum
weight should be of 389 kg, here is the image:
So, why he included the maximum lion of
Guinness but excluded the tiger? Well, the only plausible answer is that he is
a (sorry for the word) a biased lion-fan simple and direct.
Check this answer to another poster in his
“"Группу львов иногда теснит группа гиен. Одиночного тигра никогда не теснят волки, а наоборот как раз." - Это что такое? Вот от тебя не ожидал... Это приведет к батлам и срачу.
"Мозг тигра как относительно так и абсолютно крупнее львиного" - обсуждали уже. Не известно какой именно отдел мозга крупнее и за что он отвечает.
"Тигр в одиночку часто убивает крокодилов" - каких? Не сравнивай нильских кроков с болотными.
"Крупного африканского буйвола они мочат прайдом, а тигр в одиночку мочит более крупного гаура." - Ты же сам знаешь, что буйвола может замочить и один лев-самец, но вот подкрасться к нему вряд ли. К тому же кафский буйвол очень агрессивный и способен на взаимовыручку, чего не скажеш о гауре.
"Вес самых крупных тигров как в дикой природе так и в зоопарке превышает вес самых крупных львов в природе и в зоопарках." - не доказано. Пока полный
Translated in Google:
“"Group of lions sometimes close
group of hyenas . Solitary tiger never jostle wolves , but rather just enough. "
- What's that? That did not expect from you ... This will lead to battles and
"The brain as a tiger and is
relatively larger than the lion " - have already discussed . It is not
known exactly which part of the brain is larger and for which he is responsible
"Tiger alone often kills crocodiles "
- what ? Do not compare Nile CRIC marsh .
"Large African buffalo they urinate
Pride , and the tiger alone wets larger gaura . " - You know yourself
that buffalo can dunk and one male lion , but sneak up on him hardly. Besides
kafsky buffalo very aggressive and capable of mutual aid , which is not true of
"The weight of the largest tigers in
the wild and in the zoo than the weight of the largest lions in zoos and nature
. " - Not proven. Until full parity .”
He directly attacks all the strong points of
the tigers, including that of the size. So, how is possible to believe in a
person that directly discard hard evidence about the superiority of the tiger
in size and weight, plus his aversion to all the other advantages of the
Now, just like in the lion, he should put the
maximum weight recorded in scientific literatures, which for the tiger is of
260 kg empty belly, for details, check this out:
In the new image of the Ngandong tiger
comparison, he actually put the weight of 261 kg like a “Normal maximum” and a
figure of 300 kg like an upper one, check it:
However, in the lion image, he completely
change his point of view and instead of using scientific records, he just put
the maximum of 272 kg which is a completely discredit and unverifiable figure
from Kenya (it is not even quoted by Yamaguchi, the “god” of lion-fans) and
quotes (again) the maximum of 313 kg from Guinness. Check the image:
Why he doesn’t do that with the tiger??? Why we
don’t quote the maximum of 389 kg, also from Guinness??? If we are going to
quote “random” figures, why he don’t quote the maximum weights of over 600 lb
for Bengal tigers, or the original figure of over 270 kg for the heaviest
tigers in Nepal, here are the image and the email from Dr Dinerstein himself:
Roman Uchytel should put a normal maximum weight
for the tiger of 272 kg and a figure of 320 kg for the upper figure, both
Finally, the average weight of 170 kg for the
tiger is more or less accurate. Kitchener & Yamaguchi (2010) quoted an
average of 160 kg for the entire species, a figure that was also corroborated
by peter and by me. However, there is the question if they included the
estimated weight of 90-100 kg for the Bali tiger and the very low figure of
100-141 kg for the Javanese tiger. These last two figures are underestimations
from Mazák, after all, the specimens from Java were even larger than those from
Sumatra and we know very well than Sumatran tigers weigh up to 148 kg in
scientific records, check the image:
My conclusion is that both lions and tigers, at
the species level, weight about 165 kg “empty belly”, on average. Probably
lions are slightly heavier as there is less variation in weight between
populations than the tiger.