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Posts: 120 Member Since: relative


Mar 17 14 9:06 AM

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Sound like an interesting article to read, I wonder if this species could lead us into more discovery of the North/South American pantherine species.

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#1 [url]

Mar 17 14 11:21 PM

Wow, let me read this and latter I will present my conclusions about this document.

It is important to mention that Kurtén and Harrington believed that some very large skulls from Talara, Perú, were from Panthera atrox and that is why several documents (scientific and popular) states that "lions" were the most wide-spread carnivores from Europe to South America.smiley: sick

However, new studies, including one from the same Yamaguchi, showed that this "lions" from Peru were not lions at all, but a different subspecies of giant jaguars names "Panthera onca mesembrina". I have the pictures of this large skulls. I will post them in a next opportunity. smiley: tongue

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#2 [url]

Mar 21 14 7:22 PM

Well, I have read the original document, here is the link:


The investigation is about two skulls from modern Panthera members (no fossils here). The specimens are large but not exceptional (250 mm and 218 mm, respectively). Some of its characteristics suggest a different animal that show affinities with both jaguar and leopard, but other ones put them in the jaguar group only.


The conclusion of the study is that these are just normal jaguars (Panthera onca), although they have some unique characteristics on it. The reported coat color could not be proved, but if it’s true, there it was just an aberrant coloration and did not represent a different species (for the moment).


It is important to mention that no DNA study was performed as the skulls were boiled to its preservation. However the investigators suggest that maybe more advance genetic analysis could obtain some DNA for future studies.


The part that preoccupied me is this:

In conclusion, our morphometric analyses indicate that the Peruvian skulls do not represent potential new species. In the case of the ‘Peruvian tiger’, the possibility remains that a jaguar skull was provided in place of the original, however. Should additional cranial material purportedly belonging to mystery big cats be discovered, morphometric techniques such as those employed here should allow their identities to be determined.


Who do you interpret the bold part?


Well, it seems that there are no “new” cat species for the moment, just a couple of weird jaguars of average size. smiley: tongue


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Posts: 120 Member Since:relative

#4 [url]

Mar 22 14 8:59 AM

Too bad, I was expecting something related to Panthera atrox.

BTW, the affiliation of Panthera atrox's lineage is too hard to determine, whether it is closer to lion or jaguar.

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#5 [url]

Mar 24 14 7:53 AM

Yes, indeed. The morphological data suggest a relation with the jaguar, the Mitocondrial DNA suggest a relation with the lion. However, BOTH studies show that this was a completely different species that evolved in America about 337,000 years ago and that belonged to the "lion clade", together with the lion-leopard-jaguar species.

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